Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

Grand Rapids gun and knife show at the Deltaplex, Dec 1 and 2. Cost is 5 dollars per person. any interest? Open carry friendly!

"A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CPL holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The following penalties may also be imposed: "

Found at
http://www.waynecountyfirearmstraini...lfreearea.html

Just carrying a pistol? Or concealed...
Think this is intentional?

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Dose anyone else anticipate rioting tonight, or in the next few days?

I only live about a mile, and a half from the Northern Detroit border, so if Detroit goes lord of the flies the rioting (and the raping, pillaging, and burning) may well come my way, and I'll find myself in the middle of a hot zone. Which is why I have all my mags loaded, and in an load bearing vest, along with a couple smokes, and I've sharpened my Bayonet, and I just got a new gas mask, and some rations, am I being paranoid, or do you think riots are likely?

It's being leased for the day, and covered under preemption. So technically is a CPL required to OC?

Who here is going to OC while voting tomorrow?

I'm still up in the air as my polling location is at Farmington HS.

As TheQ stated in another thread:

"Food for thought. As always with OC and in life, don't pick legal battles you can't afford to fight. Knowing you, Paul, I know you can afford the fights. Others should keep in mind the cost of the fight when making their decisions."

This what is hitching me up as I'm always CC or OC unless I'm sleeping or showering.

Gotta love law...:(

I OC'd a holstered handgun today at Pontiac Lake Shooting Range, shooting some slug ammo from my shotgun. The range officer (RO) informed me that an "administrative rule" on concealed/open carry at DNR ranges had recently come out, and is as follows:

If a person shows the range officer that they have a CPL, they may carry concealed and/or openly at the range, including downrange when placing targets.

A person not having a CPL (or, I guess, not having notified the RO that they have a CPL), may carry openly except downrange. Before going downrange, their firearm must be at their station, unloaded and action open.

The RO said he did not have a hard copy of this rule, but when he got it he would post it at the bulletin board at the tower.

Anyone else heard of this? It seems to unnecessarily infringe on non-CPL's rights, and increase the chance of an unintended discharge.

September 15th at John Ball Zoo Park. Picnic Area: The Grove - Lunch at 11:30 with Zoo visit to follow.

Admission to the zoo is as follows: Adults and Seniors $5.00 Children 3-13 $4.00 Children under 2 are free.
Zoo hours are 10:00am to 4:00pm

Bring the family, your own beverages (no alcohol) and a dish to pass for this fun event. Hot dogs will be provided.

Suggested items needed for this picnic: Paper plates, napkins, Chips, etc.

DIRECTIONS:

The Zoo is conveniently located at the corner of Fulton and Valley (1300 W. Fulton) just west of downtown Grand Rapids. The Zoo is two miles west of downtown Grand Rapids and there is easy access from the I-196 expressway.

From 196 east take Lake Michigan Dr. exit and go right to Fulton. The Zoo entrance is located to your right.

From 196 west, take the Lane St. exit. Turn left on Lane and go to Fulton St. Turn right on Fulton, and proceed to corner of Fulton and Valley for Zoo entrance.

http://www.accesskent.com/CultureLei.../zoo_index.htm

i'm surprised that i haven't seen a thread on this guy losing his appeal about being detained for his ak47


http://www.wsmv.com/story/19423519/c...to-radnor-lake

Why do you Open Carry?

Quote: by Phillip Hofmeister
President of Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
Sept. 2, 2012

There has been something eating at me for a while: a certain minority who seems to have a much more than proportionate amount of attention drawn to them while they are carrying. I have to ask myself, why do the people in this small minority get so much attention? I'm left to think about one possible reason: they are seeking the attention.

First, I agree that if it is legal, every open carrier should carry a voice recorder with them. I prefer ones attached to a smart phone that upload the video in real time to the Internet in a way they cannot be deleted from the Internet via the phone. You just never know when you'll have an encounter that it'll be worth while documenting evidence. I also think people should have a recorder "always running" (maybe one that doesn't live link to the Internet -- that would drain a battery quickly!) so they can have documentation of what happened before they turned their live-upload recorder on. Some would suggest that if you carry a recording device while open carrying, you're (100%, no exception) just looking for confrontation. I reject that suggestion entirely. In fact, I think the vast majority of people who are carrying recording devices are just going about their daily lives, no seeking any confrontation. Now back to my original question: why do you open carry?

Here are a few reasons people might carry openly:

1. Self-defense. They believe there is a tactical advantage to open carry and that amongst those advantages are: a visual deterrent and a faster draw. Great! Carry on and defend yourself and those you love, I am with you!

2. Activism/Political Statement. These people believe that a "right not exercised is a right lost". They also believe that because they carry openly they have opportunities to talk to others (when approached) in a calm, friendly, professional way about why they carry a gun. These conversations help others better understand their rights and promote the second amendment in a positive way. Ryan Ransom, Treasurer and SW Coordinator of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. has performed an experiment with a friend who asked him why he open carries. They were hanging out together on that day. Ryan said for the first half of the day he will conceal carry and at noon he will start open carrying. Their morning went by completely uneventful. No one talked to them other than small talk pleasantries in passing. After noon, when Ryan started to carry openly, there were occasions where people approached Ryan and asked about his gun, why he carries, and Ryan gave them information about their rights and why they should consider carrying to protect themselves and those they love. These such encounters are almost entirely positive with very few exception.

3. You are carrying because you are seeking attention (often negative) from law enforcement officer (LEO) and/or private persons. Some things that may contribute to the type of encounters you get are: how you dress, what you carry, how you present yourself, your general attitude when approached. I'm not suggesting you should be submissive and forfeit any of your rights when approached by a LEO. That being said, if when you talk to a person (LEO or otherwise) you seem to have a chip on your shoulder -- it's going to drastically shape the nature of the encounter! Last night I went walking downtown Lansing while Openly Carrying. I like to get out and walk and sometime I like to go downtown to see how the night life is. Despite the fact of many inebriated persons, I had not one negative encounter. Several people did notice I was carrying and had pleasant conversations with me. Most were curious and they left their encounter with me more educated about Open Carry than when they started it -- much like Ryan's experiences in #2 above. Not a single negative encounter -- despite a very large presence of law enforcement (as you would expect in a place where you have hundreds of drunks of the streets). I have found if you look like a respectable, approachable person that people might want to talk to (gun aside) that you will have positive encounters. If you look or act like a thug who people might want to avoid and you are carrying a gun, you're more likely to have negative encounters and have 9-1-1 called on you. I think if you carry for the purpose of seeking negative attention, you're likely to find it.

So, if you are in fact openly carrying to seek personal attention, show that you have a chip on your shoulder, and just foaming at the mouth to have a negative encounter so you can post it on YouTube, let me ask you this: don't Open Carry -- you give the rest of us a bad name.

That all being said, I hope we can all rally behind #1 and #2 above as reasons that Open Carry is a good thing. Our goal in open carrying shouldn't be to shock people or grab negative attention, but to leave
them thinking better about gun owners than before they saw us.



/s/

Phillip Hofmeister

Stickies?

The leadership of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. is organizing a rally in Monroe Michigan (Home town of Randy Richardville, Michigan State Senate Majority Leader) to protest the lack of movement on SB-59, a bill that would allow anyone with a CPL to get an exemption from Michigan's Concealed Gun Free Zones (this would also "legitimize" the "Open carry in a PFZ" loophole).

Before our previous rally, Senator Randy Richardville called Michigan Open Carry, Inc. president, Phillip Hofmeister, to discuss the bill. Richardville said in that conversation "I'll talk to the speaker [of the House] to see if we can get it on the agenda in September." Well, we're holding this rally for one of two reasons:

1. To hold his feet to the fire, if it doesn't get passed out of the Senate by Sept. 30.
2. To thank him (maybe offer him a guest speaking role at the event) if the bill has passed out of the Senate.

Relevant Links:

• Facebook Event
• Sign-up link for special mailing list to stay informed about details of the rally.

Event Details:
Where: City of Monroe, MI
When: Sept, 30 2012 (2:00 PM - 5:00 PM)

What to do to attend

• Sign Up for the email list I have created just for rally. I'll send updates about this rally to this new list.
• Mark Sept 30, 2012 (between the hours of 2 PM and 5 PM) on your calendar.

There will be a dinner at a public restaurant after the rally.

Further details TBA.

Hello,

I am brand new to the whole open carry stuff... I have been reading the threads here. I also have my CPL. But can you guys shed some light on it? like a guide for dummy's?

Also, when I get stopped by police for open carry, is there a chart or text of MCL laws that I can bring up on my phone or print out and show to the officer or supervising officer that I am indeed ok to carry?

Some often say because my barrel is not showing it is concealed, but I guess having a CPL I can tell them, I have a cpl regardless... even if it is open carry.

sorry for being a noob, just dont want to go to jail lol

OC picnic at Memorial Park in Otsego, MI Oct 6th @ 2PM






Michigan Open Carry, Inc is inviting you to join us for a picnic in the park in Otsego, MI. The park has a small pavilion with tables, more tables scattered about under the trees in shade, 3 grills, 2 playground areas, portable restrooms and baseball/basketball/tennis if you so choose. Events like these are a great way to learn more about open carry or if you have ever wanted to try open carrying but have been nervous this is your chance to start by being around others who will be openly carrying as well. These events are always a good time and if you know someone who is curious about open carry or would just like to come along feel free to bring whoever you would like, these events are open to the public and you need not be a member to join us. Children are also welcome to these events as well, so bring your family, bring your friends and come too what will most likley be the last outdoor event on the west side untill the spring.

Details.

Where:

Otsego Memorial Park
S Farmer St, Otsego, MI 49078
(MAP) http://mapq.st/UgAhQ1

When:

Saturday October 6th @ 2PM


We hope to see plenty of you there, If you have any questions please feel free to contact myself at adamsryan182@yahoo.com or simply reply in this thread.

It has been mentioned in various threads that Yance and I have been working on something in the shadows. Now, I want to let you know what that is. Earlier this summer, Yance and I rewrote MCL 750.227 and presented it to my Representative Eileen Kowall District 44, in an effort to attempt to remove or modify this unconstitutional law. The reason for the wait, was because in our meeting, Eileen said that the legislature was about to go on summer break. I waited to release this project so that the thread wouldn't get cold.

As soon as SB59 went down, I decided to make my move on this, I had been working on it for quite a while beforehand. It was the right time, I reminded her that gun owners voted in this majority, and we wanted something to show for it. That the opportunity for real change should not be missed.

We approached her on this subject not from an OC standpoint, not so much from a gun rights standpoint, but from a private property issue. Yance was able to very eloquently present it to her as a constitutional issue.

Glock9mm graciously provided us with some numbers from the census which proved most helpful in our presentation. Thanks G9. :) Unfortunately, she asked to take the information with her for review, and it was my only copy. :banghead: It showed the population of the state, vs how many people were prohibited, vs how many people had active CPLs and so on. We used that information to show her how the right had been eliminated altogether by this law. 9 million residents, minus the under 18s, the prohibited persons left around 7 million. To exercise self defense in a private vehicle, you need a CPL. That leaves only 320,000 people left with the "right". I pointed out that since a CPL turns a right into a privelidge, that no one had the right to keep and bear in a vehicle.

We pointed out that there were IIRC 28 states, a majority, that had permit-less vehicle carry.

We came at this from a private property position in saying that your vehicle should be treated as your home as it is in most states.

You can carry, even conceal on your own property without a CPL because it is indeed private. If the police want to search your home, they need RAS and PC to get a warrant because of that private status. They need a warrant likewise to search your vehicle, again, because it is private property. But, if you carry a gun, even openly in or on a vehicle, it is a felony without a CPL. This doesn't make sense we said, you can't have it both ways. You need continuity within the law.

The changes would change the way things work in Michigan for everyone. We pointed out that laws like SB59 would affect only 300k people, while this one would affect everyone in the state. It would allow people the right to self defense in their vehicles. It would re instate the right to carry a concealed knife, the most basic and affordable means of self defense. It would eliminate the OC/CCW on a bicycle or other vehicle debate. It would require disclosure to LEO, something I don't really like, but I felt necessary to include so that the police would consent to its passage. It would also strengthen the vehicle owners ability permission to either allow or deny the presence of weapons in their vehicles.



I would encourage you to contact Eileen, and encourage her to introduce this bill as written, as she indicated she would do. I have also asked Representative Opsommer to lend a hand in passing this into law, and he said he would be delighted to participate.

Yance, I would encourage you to repost this on MOC and MGO in legal if you would. Thanks.

As I wrote the following the thread was locked. Admin's please allow this thread to stay up. I believe/hope it will correct the problems on the "Something wrong with this sign" thread.

Can we get back on track here or will the admin's please lock this thread?

Stainless, I am with you 100% on your dealings with Waterford schools. That said your conduct beyond that I will not form an opinion because I do not have anything other than here-say to go by. But your conduct on this forum is tasteless when it comes to recent posts. Enough is a enough. I will gladly stand beside you defending our rights in Michigan. But your continued trolling is unacceptable. You tarnish your reputation and credibility when you make some of the comments you have made. With that said, I also believe others have been judgmental and over-bearing with some of your posts. Stainless, please just stop trolling or replying with questionable content. You have vast knowledge on 2A rights, use it. Please contribute to this cause and our rights with intellectual, useful and mature comments on this forum. There is no place for sarcasm when tone modulation or facial expressions can not be used (unless said sarcasm is noted, i.e. /sarcasm). PLEASE do not respond to this post. If you would like to have a discussion about this PM me.

Others, (you know who you are) I had a great time at the only OC event I have attended in Birmingham. I met many people I would gladly stand beside and be arrested with should similar illegal conduct continue with any police officer like it did with Sean. But, some of you have been "quick on the draw" against Stainless. Not all or many, just a few or a couple that is. This CAN be understandable. However, we should all keep in mind this is a public forum. Anything put in text here can be read by the media or anyone else. [Sarcasm]Since we all know the media does not put a spin on things,[/Sarcasm] everyone should be as professional and polite as they would be if a TV news camera was pointed at them with their comments.

Just trying to keep us together for a common cause rather than divide us over childish behavior. Let the flaming commence......

There is a reason I hardly ever get on or post at MOC anymore. There is a person there that is nothing but trouble. A person only looking for conflict. To that person I say get married (But I think he is banned here). :D Let us not let that happen here, please.

Quote: --Moderator Comment--
Thank you - This is an example of self-moderation as well as extolling others to do likewise.

Right now i currenlty waiting for my CPL to come in the mail. So i know i am unable to carry in a PFZ such as a school so i left my sidearm at home but left my holster on. I walked into the football game all was fine,* they gave me a discount cause I have an unusually large family.* As I walk through the gate and get about 25 feet an HP LEO runs up and tells me to turn around looks in my holster. She saw it was empty and walked away without saying anything.* Now there are LEO's watching me. Guess they are not to open to OC here. I would bet that if I had my CPL and OC'd I would not be posting this now.


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A bicyclist disregards a red light and crosses across the road riding into the side of pickup truck (denting it heavily). He then gets up, walks around the truck and begins assaulting the driver through the drivers window and is shot by the driver 1 time in the chest. The bicyclist later died in surgery. The driver, a former Marine with no criminal history is now sitting in jail awaiting charges.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/B...u/-/index.html

http://thenewsherald.com/articles/20...3399352081.txt

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...-shocking-turn

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...ent-speaks-out